I have seen Toy Story 3 like a dozen times. And I think I can safely say there is ZERO propaganda in it, Conservative or otherwise. This person is insane.
All movies have some kind of agenda. Not that the writers a purposely inserting subliminal propaganda, but the creator of...anything, literally anything, has a worldview and creates that thing from that perspective. The writers of, for example, Toy Story 3 have a view of the world and how it should work and what is or isn't right and fair. When they sit down to write a cute movie about talking toys, they can't help but insert those views. For example, I personally believe that homosexuality is not a sin, and that the people who hold signs that say "God Hates F**" are coming from a place of fear and hate. Any story that I write that includes someone with that kind of prejudice is going to portray them like that. I could be wrong, but my creative works assume that I am right. Everybody is like that.
bias and even having a personal agenda aren't synonyms for propaganda, part of the definition of which involves it being a deliberate attempt to encourage a particular set of ideas. You can't accidentally make propaganda. But you can definitely write from a particular position or ideology. While sharing some of its traits the messages contained in Toy Story 3 aren't specific enough to line up with a uniquely conservative christian world view.
Geez, seriously? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and an animated family movie about living toys is just an animated family movie about living toys. And nobody is out to get you because nobody gives a sh*t about you. Crazy broad.
Spartakus- A cigar is NEVER just a cigar. Freud was uncomfortable with his latent homosexuality and was unable to acknowledge what it really signified for him. Dude needed some therapy.
I don't really see the conservative Christian angle. There's a bit of a fascism-is-bad/paternalism-is-bad thing going on with the villain's totalitarian surveillance state, but I'm not sure what that would have to do with Christianity, conservative or otherwise -- if anything it would be anti-Christian because many Christian churches are pretty paternalistic.
Whatever you say, Kitty Krackhead. Backing away now.
I do love how dinks from every stripe of the political spectrum ceaseless seek out conspiratorial "propaganda" in movies by which to be offended. Remember how so many were convinced "The Incredibles" was pro-Nazi or Ayn Rand agitprop (or both), depending on the idiot?
I detected a streak of Rand in The Incredibles even before I read anything about it. However, though I don't care for Rand's (let's call it for the sake of argument) philosophy, that didn't stop me from enjoying the movie. That's the difference between a story and an argument.
The Incredibles definitely has no hints of Ayn Rand or objectivism in it. The case that gets made in support of that is that the movie is somehow making the case that some people are just superior and they shouldn't be held back by inferior people and their inferiority complexes. They should be left to just be better.
But really the message of The Incredibles-- the very clear, obvious, spelled out message-- is that EVERYONE has their own special talents with which they can use to contribute to a greater whole. That, in fact, you are almost obligated to use your abilities in service of your community. That is pretty antithetical to objectivism.
I don't know. Though I don't really care for this "hidden propaganda" bs and just like watching movies for themselves, I kinda disagree with your point.
One of the arguments (and a twice-repeated line) in the movie is "If everyone was special than no one would be". However, I feel that that's because the story was more about people turning their backs on heroes even if all they want to do is help people. If it was about some "bigger picture" about how everyone truly is special then their would have been more non-super characters helping out.
Yeah, and that line is spoken by the villain. And non-super character he was able to defeat dozens of super powered heroes with ingenuity and technology. His problem was he was using those capabilities AGAINST humanity for personal gain, as opposed to FOR humanity for the betterment of society.
You have to take into account that the chosen premise of the movie necessitates that there be some super powered people and some non super powered people, so you can't extend any message, real or imagined, to EVERY single aspect of the movie.
For instance, a major theme of Lord of the Rings is racial equality, that people from all different backgrounds can and should work together towards common goals. However, in the Lord of the Rings universe, there are legitimate, physical differences between races, whereas in real life there are only perceived differences. That doesn't mean Tolkien thought there were physical differences in human races as well, he was just using a fantasy world conceit to make a point.
IMO, people are to quick to throw out the propaganda label. Writers naturally put their own beliefs into a story. Its one of the reasons people become writers, to express their beliefs. Propaganda is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. It is repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media and is not at all subtle. If you have to go looking for the hidden message in something, that's not propaganda.
Not saying I agree with her (I do not), but I think some of the scenes she was referring to are the ones where they make a joke about the gang mistaking Ken's handwriting for Barbie's due to how feminine it is. There are also some other scenes about Ken's feminine side that she could be referring to. I do not see those jokes as prejudiced or discriminatory. I'm not sure exactly why though... Something in the delivery made it seem very light-hearted and playful.
They're also jokes about toys that heavily reinforced gendering in children, especially young girls, so you could almost see those jokes (from a toy specifically designed and marketed to maintain strict gender differences, and emblematic of that intent) as being commentary on how we raise our children.
I doubt the jokes were intended to make that statement, but I like them better if I think of it like that.
I know a guy who thinks like this. When I told him Disney was buying Marvel he opined that now all the Marvel comics would be changed to reflect Disney's conservative Christian propaganda. I immediately asked if he was high, then explained to him the concept of asset diversifying and that Disney was not at the forefront of a world-wide religous conspiracy. The man is in his 30s, for God's sake.
it's true.
ReplyDeleteWas she really still wearing an "Impeach Bush" shirt?
ReplyDeleteWhat about the Zionist propaganda toys!?
ReplyDeleteI have seen Toy Story 3 like a dozen times. And I think I can safely say there is ZERO propaganda in it, Conservative or otherwise. This person is insane.
ReplyDeleteThat's literally impossible.
DeleteAll movies have some kind of agenda. Not that the writers a purposely inserting subliminal propaganda, but the creator of...anything, literally anything, has a worldview and creates that thing from that perspective. The writers of, for example, Toy Story 3 have a view of the world and how it should work and what is or isn't right and fair. When they sit down to write a cute movie about talking toys, they can't help but insert those views. For example, I personally believe that homosexuality is not a sin, and that the people who hold signs that say "God Hates F**" are coming from a place of fear and hate. Any story that I write that includes someone with that kind of prejudice is going to portray them like that. I could be wrong, but my creative works assume that I am right. Everybody is like that.
Deletebias and even having a personal agenda aren't synonyms for propaganda, part of the definition of which involves it being a deliberate attempt to encourage a particular set of ideas. You can't accidentally make propaganda. But you can definitely write from a particular position or ideology. While sharing some of its traits the messages contained in Toy Story 3 aren't specific enough to line up with a uniquely conservative christian world view.
DeleteI haven't seen Toy Story 3.
ReplyDeleteI'm also told that I don't have a soul.
Propagandas... plural
ReplyDeleteI always thought the plural was propagandai myself
DeleteI thought it was just Propaganda - plural or otherwise.
DeleteI guess she saw the furnace scene as some sort of metaphor for Hell and thus naturally Christian propaganda?
ReplyDeleteAnd they were saved by the three alien toys with the claw, who each represent the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit!
ReplyDeleteIf Jesus was an alien, wouldn't that make Toy Story 3 Scientology propaganda?
DeleteGeez, seriously?
ReplyDeleteSometimes a cigar is just a cigar and an animated family movie about living toys is just an animated family movie about living toys. And nobody is out to get you because nobody gives a sh*t about you. Crazy broad.
If I watched Toy Story 3 and still don't give a toss about religion... it's not that good propaganda is it? :P
ReplyDeleteSpartakus- A cigar is NEVER just a cigar. Freud was uncomfortable with his latent homosexuality and was unable to acknowledge what it really signified for him. Dude needed some therapy.
ReplyDeleteI don't really see the conservative Christian angle. There's a bit of a fascism-is-bad/paternalism-is-bad thing going on with the villain's totalitarian surveillance state, but I'm not sure what that would have to do with Christianity, conservative or otherwise -- if anything it would be anti-Christian because many Christian churches are pretty paternalistic.
ReplyDeleteWhatever you say, Kitty Krackhead. Backing away now.
ReplyDeleteI do love how dinks from every stripe of the political spectrum ceaseless seek out conspiratorial "propaganda" in movies by which to be offended. Remember how so many were convinced "The Incredibles" was pro-Nazi or Ayn Rand agitprop (or both), depending on the idiot?
I've read a few convincing Randian analysis saying that "The Incredibles" was objectivist, but never have I heard that it was pro-Nazi.
DeleteI detected a streak of Rand in The Incredibles even before I read anything about it. However, though I don't care for Rand's (let's call it for the sake of argument) philosophy, that didn't stop me from enjoying the movie. That's the difference between a story and an argument.
DeleteThe Incredibles definitely has no hints of Ayn Rand or objectivism in it. The case that gets made in support of that is that the movie is somehow making the case that some people are just superior and they shouldn't be held back by inferior people and their inferiority complexes. They should be left to just be better.
DeleteBut really the message of The Incredibles-- the very clear, obvious, spelled out message-- is that EVERYONE has their own special talents with which they can use to contribute to a greater whole. That, in fact, you are almost obligated to use your abilities in service of your community. That is pretty antithetical to objectivism.
I don't know. Though I don't really care for this "hidden propaganda" bs and just like watching movies for themselves, I kinda disagree with your point.
DeleteOne of the arguments (and a twice-repeated line) in the movie is "If everyone was special than no one would be". However, I feel that that's because the story was more about people turning their backs on heroes even if all they want to do is help people. If it was about some "bigger picture" about how everyone truly is special then their would have been more non-super characters helping out.
Yeah, and that line is spoken by the villain. And non-super character he was able to defeat dozens of super powered heroes with ingenuity and technology. His problem was he was using those capabilities AGAINST humanity for personal gain, as opposed to FOR humanity for the betterment of society.
DeleteYou have to take into account that the chosen premise of the movie necessitates that there be some super powered people and some non super powered people, so you can't extend any message, real or imagined, to EVERY single aspect of the movie.
For instance, a major theme of Lord of the Rings is racial equality, that people from all different backgrounds can and should work together towards common goals. However, in the Lord of the Rings universe, there are legitimate, physical differences between races, whereas in real life there are only perceived differences. That doesn't mean Tolkien thought there were physical differences in human races as well, he was just using a fantasy world conceit to make a point.
IMO, people are to quick to throw out the propaganda label. Writers naturally put their own beliefs into a story. Its one of the reasons people become writers, to express their beliefs. Propaganda is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. It is repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media and is not at all subtle. If you have to go looking for the hidden message in something, that's not propaganda.
ReplyDeleteGreat point. Can I quote you on that?
DeleteIf you look for a conspiracy in everything then everything is a conspiracy.
ReplyDeleteNot saying I agree with her (I do not), but I think some of the scenes she was referring to are the ones where they make a joke about the gang mistaking Ken's handwriting for Barbie's due to how feminine it is. There are also some other scenes about Ken's feminine side that she could be referring to. I do not see those jokes as prejudiced or discriminatory. I'm not sure exactly why though... Something in the delivery made it seem very light-hearted and playful.
ReplyDeleteThey're also jokes about toys that heavily reinforced gendering in children, especially young girls, so you could almost see those jokes (from a toy specifically designed and marketed to maintain strict gender differences, and emblematic of that intent) as being commentary on how we raise our children.
DeleteI doubt the jokes were intended to make that statement, but I like them better if I think of it like that.
Has some stereotypes of course and they prank a bit about it but conservative Christian propagandas?!? Now that's madness
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, at the Pixar offices...
ReplyDelete"Oh, shit! She's on to us! Quick, stop making movies people want to see! Then, once our trail goes cold, we can start pumping out the ol' JesusProp!"
*high fives exchanged*
well, isn't it already well known that pixar are randroids?
ReplyDeleteI know a guy who thinks like this. When I told him Disney was buying Marvel he opined that now all the Marvel comics would be changed to reflect Disney's conservative Christian propaganda. I immediately asked if he was high, then explained to him the concept of asset diversifying and that Disney was not at the forefront of a world-wide religous conspiracy. The man is in his 30s, for God's sake.
ReplyDelete