I would imagine that not having your personhood, basic liberties, and access to necessary medical care directly threatened by the president-elect means you yourself are quite comfortable. So long as you never give a shit about anyone other than yourself, that is.
> I would imagine that not having your personhood, basic liberties, and access to necessary medical care directly threatened by the president-elect means you yourself are quite comfortable. So long as you never give a shit about anyone other than yourself, that is.
I believe that this is what today's youth would refer to as "getting rekt."
Oh no, I had my access to medical care directly threatened by the current administration. The ACA made it too expensive for me to afford health insurance for myself and my family because I'm self employeed. But at least I got to pay the penalty every year in taxes, and see the oh so generous offer of $16 dollars in substities that was being offered me while my health plan for years was drink a shit load of orange juice and hope for the best. This got to go one while I got to watch my neighbor have to close his business and let his employees go because he could not afford all the regulations that the ACA heaped upon him. I guess he never thought that would happen when he legally immigrated to this country to try to have better life, and his three children sure didn't think something like that would happen either. I voted one one issue: who is going to get rid of the ACA.
And no one's personhood, liberties or anything that got listed is being threatened at all. That is panic and fear mongering by those upset that their side lost. And the ironic think about this comment is the refusal to see those who have been hurting under the current administration and voted to try to emprove things for themselves and country. The unwillingness to engage and ask "hey, why did you vote that way?" and to try to see the other side of things is a damn good example of not giving "a shit about anyone other than yourself".
If the next president does anything out of line while in office, then you get to be upset, just as I've been stuct being scared and upset for years. Until then, cut the theatrics.
I, too, lost my insurance (with which I was really happy) because of the ACA, and now have to pay a damn fine every year for the privilege of not having any. And you know what? I'm still not going to belittle or ignore the fears of tens of millions of people of color, non-Christians, and LGBQT people who this psycho considers to be non-human. Funny how that can work, huh?
The fact that Obamacare didn't work for you and your family sucks. Honestly. I think Obamacare had some truly good intentions behind it but definitely had kinks that needed working out. I've also heard stories of people who had no insurance who suddenly got it because of the ACA. But it's true, it should have been better designed to help everyone. Maybe one of the positive things the Trump administration can do is fix it.
As for the 'personhood/liberties' thing, you can't just brush that under the rug. Whether it was real or just an act to gain votes, Trump built a lot of his campaign on racial fear-mongering himself. Because of this, a lot of the people who voted for him (but not all I guess) are people who are either actively or passively racist. It says a lot that the KKK were very loud about voting for him. It also says a lot that the very next day after Trump won, attacks and threats experienced by Muslims, minorities (especially Latinos), and LGBT people suddenly rose.
From what I've heard that died down a bit since, which is good. But you can't hear something like that and say the left is just making it up. Lots of people are afraid and they have a right to be. Hopefully, this is another thing Trump will attempt to right. Time will tell I guess.
The LGBT community has absolutely nothing to worry about. Trump is a long time supporter and has vowed to protect them. He did this at the Rupublican National Convention and thousands of people cheered. The stories about Pence being a homophobe and in favor of shock therapy for conversion are a complete lie and have been debunked.
Trump has promised to help the African American Community with economic reforms improving job opportunites and education.
The latino community has nothing to fear, unless they are breaking the lew by being here illegally. Trump has stated that he's going after those with police records and is still considering what to do about those who came here illegally, but are leading productive lives and contributing to society. Expect them to get a pass.
The Muslim community needs to stand with the administration in ferreting out the extremists and bad actors. Its not all Muslims who are a problem, obviously, but there's a nasty part of their population who mean to harm others. There's a part of every population that means ill will and no one should get a pass based on gender, ethnicity, or faith. So don't go interpreting a stance against extremists as a stance against an entire group. That's just dishonest.
Trump has also come out against the acts of violence that have been reported.
I am not a Trump fan. I did not vote for him in the primary. The choice between him and Clinton was crystal clear and I voted. All the name calling, ridiculous accusations, and the belittling did nothing but silence those which an open dialogue should have been open. And then they got away from all the name calling and went into the voting booth and said what they thought. That's why everyone seemed so surprised. I didn't. I paied attention. I did my homework. I'm completely comfortable with my choice. And time will tell what actually happens.
And it is not belittling nor ignoring peoples' fears when I tell them their fears are largely unfounded and they need to calm down a bit.
Well, first and foremost, here's Pence's stance on Homosexuality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pence#LGBT_rights_policy The fact that he's pro-conversion therapy (whether or not he specifies electroshock, which is included in many types of conversion) is bad enough.
Don't know who told you they were a 'complete lie' but maybe check your facts.
The big problem with how you describe the Latino and Muslim communities is that, by doing this, the Trump administration has basically secluded them into groups that everyone gets to keep an eye on. They want them to fit in and be a part of the country but, at the same time, they're treated as a different class with different laws that apply to them. Also do you think people like the KKK care whether a Latino is 'legal' or not? Plenty of people get set up for minor crimes just to be given and excuse to be kicked out. At the end of the day, it's Trump who decides what makes someone "productive and contributing to society".
Same goes for Muslims. Treat them as outcasts because maybe one of them might be a terrorist. Let's ignore all the white, christian terrorists in the past. No Christians are being registered for their religious beliefs.
It's great Trump spoke out about the violence. Very presidential. But, and I know I'm repeating myself, he's the reason a lot of the violence happened in the first place. He incited people like that to vote for him because he would 'take care of THEM'. I'm glad to see he's doing a 180* on most of that shit but that doesn't change what he said. And I find it hard to trust a guy who constantly changes what he says and contradicts himself.
At the end, you made your choice and I do kind of understand why. It's done now, no going back. But you talk about and 'open dialogue' when you refuse to hear why people dislike what this new administration means to them. It's not just Trump but the people who follow him.
"And I find it hard to trust a guy who constantly changes what he says and contradicts himself."
But you would have been perfectly fine with Clinton doing it... This election was a rough decision. but in the end reviewing the actual backgrounds, and histories of the candidates, Clinton was always the worse of the two evils. Trump is a bag of hot air that said a lot of things that freaked a lot of people out, but you got to understand, many of the same people that voted for Trump voted for Obama...twice. You dig past all the fear mongering that BOTH sides were knee deep in planting (despite all the clams of trump supporters causing acts of violence I only ever see actual video evidence of Trump supporters BEING attacked) and the presidency came down to who voters thought was more corrupt and destructive. The loud rich fart that refused to be PC that had never worked in politics or the media protected female Nixon.
@BasiliskEye84 I'm not saying you're wrong but I would like to see the evidence to back your claims. I agree Clinton was not much better, but I guess I preferred her for the same reason I fear Trump: the people behind her. Clinton herself may have been bad but I feel a lot of good people could have followed her in. In the end, I would have preferred Bernie, who honestly felt like he cared for EVERYONE and wanted to make some big changes to that effect. But who knows now. Maybe in the future.
As for the videos, I can promise I had no problem finding evidence of Trump supporters causing threats or attacks but since you didn't, maybe that's just another part of our various biases. If there's one thing I really learned this election is that the media is the biggest enemy. They'll tell us whatever we want to hear. You end up having to do a lot of digging yourself, as you said.
Honestly, in the end I'm just tired of all the anger and the hate. On both sides. Maybe that's why I'm trying to keep this as a conversation, rather than and argument. Whatever else happens, I want people to feel safe and secure, especially when it comes to their government. I if this fear is based on 'dishonesty' and 'fear-mongering' than so be it, but you won't win over anyone by mocking their fear. There's still a chance for everyone to work together, as hippie-dippie as that might sound.
You do make excellent points on civil discourse and I agree with them. Still, I don't want people railing on because of irrational fears.
Oh and i don't know what happened to a comment I made earliers, but it contained a link refuting the Mike Pence conversion therapy thing. http://www.snopes.com/mike-pence-supported-gay-conversion-therapy/
Help us, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're our only hope.
ReplyDeleteSays him. I've got plenty to look forward to. The sky still isn't falling.
ReplyDeleteI would imagine that not having your personhood, basic liberties, and access to necessary medical care directly threatened by the president-elect means you yourself are quite comfortable. So long as you never give a shit about anyone other than yourself, that is.
Delete> I would imagine that not having your personhood, basic liberties, and access to necessary medical care directly threatened by the president-elect means you yourself are quite comfortable. So long as you never give a shit about anyone other than yourself, that is.
DeleteI believe that this is what today's youth would refer to as "getting rekt."
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteOh no, I had my access to medical care directly threatened by the current administration. The ACA made it too expensive for me to afford health insurance for myself and my family because I'm self employeed. But at least I got to pay the penalty every year in taxes, and see the oh so generous offer of $16 dollars in substities that was being offered me while my health plan for years was drink a shit load of orange juice and hope for the best. This got to go one while I got to watch my neighbor have to close his business and let his employees go because he could not afford all the regulations that the ACA heaped upon him. I guess he never thought that would happen when he legally immigrated to this country to try to have better life, and his three children sure didn't think something like that would happen either. I voted one one issue: who is going to get rid of the ACA.
DeleteAnd no one's personhood, liberties or anything that got listed is being threatened at all. That is panic and fear mongering by those upset that their side lost. And the ironic think about this comment is the refusal to see those who have been hurting under the current administration and voted to try to emprove things for themselves and country. The unwillingness to engage and ask "hey, why did you vote that way?" and to try to see the other side of things is a damn good example of not giving "a shit about anyone other than yourself".
If the next president does anything out of line while in office, then you get to be upset, just as I've been stuct being scared and upset for years. Until then, cut the theatrics.
I, too, lost my insurance (with which I was really happy) because of the ACA, and now have to pay a damn fine every year for the privilege of not having any. And you know what? I'm still not going to belittle or ignore the fears of tens of millions of people of color, non-Christians, and LGBQT people who this psycho considers to be non-human. Funny how that can work, huh?
DeleteThe fact that Obamacare didn't work for you and your family sucks. Honestly. I think Obamacare had some truly good intentions behind it but definitely had kinks that needed working out. I've also heard stories of people who had no insurance who suddenly got it because of the ACA. But it's true, it should have been better designed to help everyone. Maybe one of the positive things the Trump administration can do is fix it.
DeleteAs for the 'personhood/liberties' thing, you can't just brush that under the rug. Whether it was real or just an act to gain votes, Trump built a lot of his campaign on racial fear-mongering himself. Because of this, a lot of the people who voted for him (but not all I guess) are people who are either actively or passively racist. It says a lot that the KKK were very loud about voting for him. It also says a lot that the very next day after Trump won, attacks and threats experienced by Muslims, minorities (especially Latinos), and LGBT people suddenly rose.
From what I've heard that died down a bit since, which is good. But you can't hear something like that and say the left is just making it up. Lots of people are afraid and they have a right to be. Hopefully, this is another thing Trump will attempt to right. Time will tell I guess.
The LGBT community has absolutely nothing to worry about. Trump is a long time supporter and has vowed to protect them. He did this at the Rupublican National Convention and thousands of people cheered. The stories about Pence being a homophobe and in favor of shock therapy for conversion are a complete lie and have been debunked.
DeleteTrump has promised to help the African American Community with economic reforms improving job opportunites and education.
The latino community has nothing to fear, unless they are breaking the lew by being here illegally. Trump has stated that he's going after those with police records and is still considering what to do about those who came here illegally, but are leading productive lives and contributing to society. Expect them to get a pass.
The Muslim community needs to stand with the administration in ferreting out the extremists and bad actors. Its not all Muslims who are a problem, obviously, but there's a nasty part of their population who mean to harm others. There's a part of every population that means ill will and no one should get a pass based on gender, ethnicity, or faith. So don't go interpreting a stance against extremists as a stance against an entire group. That's just dishonest.
Trump has also come out against the acts of violence that have been reported.
I am not a Trump fan. I did not vote for him in the primary. The choice between him and Clinton was crystal clear and I voted. All the name calling, ridiculous accusations, and the belittling did nothing but silence those which an open dialogue should have been open. And then they got away from all the name calling and went into the voting booth and said what they thought. That's why everyone seemed so surprised. I didn't. I paied attention. I did my homework. I'm completely comfortable with my choice. And time will tell what actually happens.
And it is not belittling nor ignoring peoples' fears when I tell them their fears are largely unfounded and they need to calm down a bit.
Well, first and foremost, here's Pence's stance on Homosexuality:
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pence#LGBT_rights_policy
The fact that he's pro-conversion therapy (whether or not he specifies electroshock, which is included in many types of conversion) is bad enough.
Don't know who told you they were a 'complete lie' but maybe check your facts.
The big problem with how you describe the Latino and Muslim communities is that, by doing this, the Trump administration has basically secluded them into groups that everyone gets to keep an eye on. They want them to fit in and be a part of the country but, at the same time, they're treated as a different class with different laws that apply to them. Also do you think people like the KKK care whether a Latino is 'legal' or not? Plenty of people get set up for minor crimes just to be given and excuse to be kicked out. At the end of the day, it's Trump who decides what makes someone "productive and contributing to society".
Same goes for Muslims. Treat them as outcasts because maybe one of them might be a terrorist. Let's ignore all the white, christian terrorists in the past. No Christians are being registered for their religious beliefs.
It's great Trump spoke out about the violence. Very presidential. But, and I know I'm repeating myself, he's the reason a lot of the violence happened in the first place. He incited people like that to vote for him because he would 'take care of THEM'. I'm glad to see he's doing a 180* on most of that shit but that doesn't change what he said. And I find it hard to trust a guy who constantly changes what he says and contradicts himself.
At the end, you made your choice and I do kind of understand why. It's done now, no going back. But you talk about and 'open dialogue' when you refuse to hear why people dislike what this new administration means to them. It's not just Trump but the people who follow him.
"And I find it hard to trust a guy who constantly changes what he says and contradicts himself."
DeleteBut you would have been perfectly fine with Clinton doing it...
This election was a rough decision. but in the end reviewing the actual backgrounds, and histories of the candidates, Clinton was always the worse of the two evils. Trump is a bag of hot air that said a lot of things that freaked a lot of people out, but you got to understand, many of the same people that voted for Trump voted for Obama...twice.
You dig past all the fear mongering that BOTH sides were knee deep in planting (despite all the clams of trump supporters causing acts of violence I only ever see actual video evidence of Trump supporters BEING attacked) and the presidency came down to who voters thought was more corrupt and destructive. The loud rich fart that refused to be PC that had never worked in politics or the media protected female Nixon.
Did my last comment get deleted or something?
Delete@BasiliskEye84
DeleteI'm not saying you're wrong but I would like to see the evidence to back your claims.
I agree Clinton was not much better, but I guess I preferred her for the same reason I fear Trump: the people behind her. Clinton herself may have been bad but I feel a lot of good people could have followed her in. In the end, I would have preferred Bernie, who honestly felt like he cared for EVERYONE and wanted to make some big changes to that effect. But who knows now. Maybe in the future.
As for the videos, I can promise I had no problem finding evidence of Trump supporters causing threats or attacks but since you didn't, maybe that's just another part of our various biases. If there's one thing I really learned this election is that the media is the biggest enemy. They'll tell us whatever we want to hear. You end up having to do a lot of digging yourself, as you said.
Honestly, in the end I'm just tired of all the anger and the hate. On both sides. Maybe that's why I'm trying to keep this as a conversation, rather than and argument. Whatever else happens, I want people to feel safe and secure, especially when it comes to their government. I if this fear is based on 'dishonesty' and 'fear-mongering' than so be it, but you won't win over anyone by mocking their fear. There's still a chance for everyone to work together, as hippie-dippie as that might sound.
DeleteYou do make excellent points on civil discourse and I agree with them. Still, I don't want people railing on because of irrational fears.
DeleteOh and i don't know what happened to a comment I made earliers, but it contained a link refuting the Mike Pence conversion therapy thing. http://www.snopes.com/mike-pence-supported-gay-conversion-therapy/
>the current year
Delete>trusting snopes
Okay. We're doomed.
ReplyDelete