Fuck the local comic shop. I'll keep supporting them as long as their services remain desirable and not a moment beyond. The very notion that we as consumers should be opposed to greater convenience and lower prices out of some manner of loyalty to a particular retailer is flatout absurd.
Failing to completely maximise my own personnal profit and/on convenience, in order to support a system or people I like, is as flatout absurd as, say, liking books to be made of paper, and pages to be touched, turned and flipped manually. Madness, I say, madness.
If you like their product then that's fine. That's another matter entirely though. You're buying paper comics because you like paper comics and that's worth an extra dollar or two and a trip for you. You are using the local comic book store because their services remain desirable.
I'm not opposed to paper comics. I'm opposed to the notion that we should buy paper comics for the sole purpose of supporting our local comic book store.
Unless you do care for the local comic book store. Beyond the object you get there, you may also want to toss one more coin just for that place to exist. Either because the owners are cool, or because the place has a cool atmosphere, or because you like to be able to browse various books freely before buying them, etc. "Support your local book store" implies you get pleasure in knowing your weird local bookstore exists. And it reminds you that -whether you care or not- it'll cease to exist if you just get digital copies.
The point is, you pay for more than the mere product itself. People may enjoy what is around it, and forget how it is dependant on where they buy their comics from. Comic book stores are fun places in my opinion (and this website confirms it in a horrible twisted way). In a way, their "services" go beyond the obvious and tangible aspect, and this should not be overlooked, taken as granted or eternal. It's in that sense that local stores should be supported. But yeah, if you don't even enjoy setting foot in them, then asking for loyalty is probably absurd.
Sounds like we're on about the same page. If you want to shop at the comic book store as a personal decision that's fine. Sometimes all it takes to get customer loyalty is something like a pleasant smile.
It's just weird when you see people going around telling others to support their local comic book store. Like "Hey, I know you're really enjoying whatever you're buying, but you should really consider the retailer you're not giving money to".
There are few things I love more than a good used book store. There's just something nice about it. The pleasant individual tending the store. Getting to rummage through books that clearly have a lot of memories. Finding odd items you wouldn't find elsewhere. Even just the smell of it. It always sucks when one of them goes out of business. It's like losing a chunk of history. If I were to recommend a used book store to somebody it wouldn't be phrased as "What the hell are you doing buying new literature? Support your local used book store!" If I went around saying that to people they would be understandably put off and wonder exactly why they're supposed to be supporting these guys in the first place.
I don't think a lot of comic readers understand what will happen to the comic book industry as a whole if local comic shops go the way of the dinosaur... And "Support your local comic shop." is not a demand. God, people need to chill the fuck out. As a life-long comic reader I recognize the importance of such shops and I'm sorry if YOU PERSONALLY have at a bad experience with yours- but that has never been the case with me and the three shops I frequent. And besides all of that- I like to OWN a PHYSICAL book if I'm spending hard earned cash on it- I like not having to stare at a screen or monitor- I like having individual issue runs and enjoy little things like physically turning a page...
I get that you like that. There's nothing wrong with that. Once again, I have never spoken out against the notion that somebody would enjoy any of these things. I've spoken out against the notion that we as a whole should be opposed to progress or improvement in a given area in favor of these things.
You didn't phrase it as "I prefer certain aspects of the hard copy and thus choose to support my local comic book shop". You explicitly stated that anybody who preferred to read digitally was stupid. Digital is no substitute exclamation point. Support your local comic shop triple exclamation point. Whether or not you viewed it as a demand it was every bit a statement on what you thought others should be doing, and not a statement of your own preferences and choices.
That being said you've interested me with your statement about what would happen to the comic book industry as a whole if local comic shops went the way of the dinosaur. Would you mind explaining that to me? That sounds like a pretty big part of the picture I'm probably missing. Is that a convention thing or something?
Saying: "Support your local comic shop!" is no different than someone saying: "VOTE Obama!" or "Vote NO on Prop. 8!" Do you really expect everyone to preface their opinions or beliefs with shit like: "I, personally, think that maybe you should consider voting for Obama if you are a Democrat and agree with his platform... and I hope I'm not making anyone uncomfortable or offending them by stating this and you have the right to your own opinion." No- you say: VOTE OBAMA!!! And if anyone has a problem with it they can just deal.
If YOU were to say: "FUCK PRINT- GO DIGITAL!" I could disagree with you, I could tell you why I think that's wrong... But I would NOT say that you are trying to command my opinion and you SHOULD have worded it: 'I see your point in wishing to own a physical comic but I personally prefer the ease and convenience of buying digitally and I hope no one is offended by this statement as it is just my own opinion.' It's getting ridiculous! No one can say ANYTHING anymore without SOMEONE feeling like their toes are being maliciously stomped on. Your right to disagree with someone's opinion should not have to be stated constantly- it's a given!!!
As for the other thing: I'll try to explain it the best I can... The cost to make and distribute a physical comic issue is reflected in its cover-price (along with what will be the Publisher or Creator's profit). Comic book prices have went up over the years because the actual cost of making them has increased- however they also found they could charge more on top of that (because of more comic readers with more money who were willing to spend it- supply and demand- all that shit) and therefore they make more money after paying costs.
As you or someone else mentioned above- digital comics are cheaper to purchase. But what that means is that, after they pay out for distribution, the take-home for the Publisher/Creator is drastically less. So, how it's structured now: The more people who leave print and buy digitally- the less money the Publisher/Creators make. The less money they make- the less they have to pay writers and artists and letters and whatnot, and that means less books, less stories... less quality, less comics. Right now- the digital market only makes up 10% to 20% of their overall sales, and that's fine. That's a market that they would not have reached otherwise- and they make less off it- but less is better than none at all from that particular niche. But if more people go digital- and stop buying comics... the higher that percentage gets... The less money they make overall. And comic readers suffer. Then what will happen is- when that percent of digital sales goes up to 40%, 50% (higher?) digital comics are going to go up in price. Again and again. Just like real comics have done over the years... Maybe we'll see another comic-crash like in '96 because not everyone wants digital to begin with- and when it costs just as much as print books (or more) they're going to lose readers on BOTH fronts when those print books are not available (or as readily available) to them anymore because NO ONE SUPPORTED THEIR LOCAL COMIC SHOP!!! This could take years and years to happen, I know- but it's the direction I see it trending in.
My favorite part about these cartoons is that they're so funny they make me want to argue with other people in the comment section for hours. You just wrote a novel on the msg board of a web comic. Congratulations.
On the first point, phrasing the likes of "Vote Obama" is likely to be found in advertisements and on signs on the lawn, but if somebody were to actually talk like that in everyday conversation it would at best be incredibly rude and pushy, and even that is usually not preceded by a statement like "Some people think McCain could be a good president but that's because they're stupid" outside of flatout smear campaigns which are generally tasteless in the first place. Even there they're more likely to badmouth McCain than they are the McCain voters.
Not to mention that politics is a pretty turbulent area of discussion in the first place. Yes, people use strong wording when they feel that their rights are being infringed upon or they're speaking out of prejudicial hatred. I don't feel that Prop 8 is a socially comparable subject to the discussion digital media vs print.
The right to disagree with somebody is a given. At no point have I accused you of attempting to infringe on freedom of speech. Clearly I have been disagreeing with you without fear of censorship. That's just a weird direction to take things in.
On the second point those are some interesting figures and I thank you for taking the time to inform me.
>2012
ReplyDelete>still buying single issues
>in paper
I seriously hope you guys don't do this.
God damn it Costanza, don't make me burn this fuckin' stupid website to the ground!
Delete>using 4chan memes outside of 4chan
DeleteWhat's the problem with buying single issues now?
Delete-Some people think digital is better... because they're stupid. Digital is NO substitute! Support your local comic shop!!!
DeleteMost places sell singles at comic conventions super cheap. Just last month my friend bought all the issues of 52 for about ten dollars.
DeleteFuck the local comic shop. I'll keep supporting them as long as their services remain desirable and not a moment beyond. The very notion that we as consumers should be opposed to greater convenience and lower prices out of some manner of loyalty to a particular retailer is flatout absurd.
DeleteFailing to completely maximise my own personnal profit and/on convenience, in order to support a system or people I like, is as flatout absurd as, say, liking books to be made of paper, and pages to be touched, turned and flipped manually. Madness, I say, madness.
DeleteIf you like their product then that's fine. That's another matter entirely though. You're buying paper comics because you like paper comics and that's worth an extra dollar or two and a trip for you. You are using the local comic book store because their services remain desirable.
DeleteI'm not opposed to paper comics. I'm opposed to the notion that we should buy paper comics for the sole purpose of supporting our local comic book store.
Unless you do care for the local comic book store. Beyond the object you get there, you may also want to toss one more coin just for that place to exist. Either because the owners are cool, or because the place has a cool atmosphere, or because you like to be able to browse various books freely before buying them, etc. "Support your local book store" implies you get pleasure in knowing your weird local bookstore exists. And it reminds you that -whether you care or not- it'll cease to exist if you just get digital copies.
DeleteThe point is, you pay for more than the mere product itself. People may enjoy what is around it, and forget how it is dependant on where they buy their comics from. Comic book stores are fun places in my opinion (and this website confirms it in a horrible twisted way). In a way, their "services" go beyond the obvious and tangible aspect, and this should not be overlooked, taken as granted or eternal. It's in that sense that local stores should be supported. But yeah, if you don't even enjoy setting foot in them, then asking for loyalty is probably absurd.
Sounds like we're on about the same page. If you want to shop at the comic book store as a personal decision that's fine. Sometimes all it takes to get customer loyalty is something like a pleasant smile.
DeleteIt's just weird when you see people going around telling others to support their local comic book store. Like "Hey, I know you're really enjoying whatever you're buying, but you should really consider the retailer you're not giving money to".
There are few things I love more than a good used book store. There's just something nice about it. The pleasant individual tending the store. Getting to rummage through books that clearly have a lot of memories. Finding odd items you wouldn't find elsewhere. Even just the smell of it. It always sucks when one of them goes out of business. It's like losing a chunk of history. If I were to recommend a used book store to somebody it wouldn't be phrased as "What the hell are you doing buying new literature? Support your local used book store!" If I went around saying that to people they would be understandably put off and wonder exactly why they're supposed to be supporting these guys in the first place.
I don't think a lot of comic readers understand what will happen to the comic book industry as a whole if local comic shops go the way of the dinosaur... And "Support your local comic shop." is not a demand. God, people need to chill the fuck out.
DeleteAs a life-long comic reader I recognize the importance of such shops and I'm sorry if YOU PERSONALLY have at a bad experience with yours- but that has never been the case with me and the three shops I frequent.
And besides all of that- I like to OWN a PHYSICAL book if I'm spending hard earned cash on it- I like not having to stare at a screen or monitor- I like having individual issue runs and enjoy little things like physically turning a page...
I get that you like that. There's nothing wrong with that. Once again, I have never spoken out against the notion that somebody would enjoy any of these things. I've spoken out against the notion that we as a whole should be opposed to progress or improvement in a given area in favor of these things.
DeleteYou didn't phrase it as "I prefer certain aspects of the hard copy and thus choose to support my local comic book shop". You explicitly stated that anybody who preferred to read digitally was stupid. Digital is no substitute exclamation point. Support your local comic shop triple exclamation point. Whether or not you viewed it as a demand it was every bit a statement on what you thought others should be doing, and not a statement of your own preferences and choices.
That being said you've interested me with your statement about what would happen to the comic book industry as a whole if local comic shops went the way of the dinosaur. Would you mind explaining that to me? That sounds like a pretty big part of the picture I'm probably missing. Is that a convention thing or something?
Saying: "Support your local comic shop!" is no different than someone saying: "VOTE Obama!" or "Vote NO on Prop. 8!"
DeleteDo you really expect everyone to preface their opinions or beliefs with shit like: "I, personally, think that maybe you should consider voting for Obama if you are a Democrat and agree with his platform... and I hope I'm not making anyone uncomfortable or offending them by stating this and you have the right to your own opinion." No- you say: VOTE OBAMA!!! And if anyone has a problem with it they can just deal.
If YOU were to say: "FUCK PRINT- GO DIGITAL!" I could disagree with you, I could tell you why I think that's wrong... But I would NOT say that you are trying to command my opinion and you SHOULD have worded it: 'I see your point in wishing to own a physical comic but I personally prefer the ease and convenience of buying digitally and I hope no one is offended by this statement as it is just my own opinion.'
It's getting ridiculous! No one can say ANYTHING anymore without SOMEONE feeling like their toes are being maliciously stomped on.
Your right to disagree with someone's opinion should not have to be stated constantly- it's a given!!!
As for the other thing: I'll try to explain it the best I can... The cost to make and distribute a physical comic issue is reflected in its cover-price (along with what will be the Publisher or Creator's profit). Comic book prices have went up over the years because the actual cost of making them has increased- however they also found they could charge more on top of that (because of more comic readers with more money who were willing to spend it- supply and demand- all that shit) and therefore they make more money after paying costs.
As you or someone else mentioned above- digital comics are cheaper to purchase. But what that means is that, after they pay out for distribution, the take-home for the Publisher/Creator is drastically less. So, how it's structured now: The more people who leave print and buy digitally- the less money the Publisher/Creators make. The less money they make- the less they have to pay writers and artists and letters and whatnot, and that means less books, less stories... less quality, less comics.
Right now- the digital market only makes up 10% to 20% of their overall sales, and that's fine. That's a market that they would not have reached otherwise- and they make less off it- but less is better than none at all from that particular niche.
But if more people go digital- and stop buying comics... the higher that percentage gets... The less money they make overall. And comic readers suffer.
Then what will happen is- when that percent of digital sales goes up to 40%, 50% (higher?) digital comics are going to go up in price. Again and again. Just like real comics have done over the years... Maybe we'll see another comic-crash like in '96 because not everyone wants digital to begin with- and when it costs just as much as print books (or more) they're going to lose readers on BOTH fronts when those print books are not available (or as readily available) to them anymore because NO ONE SUPPORTED THEIR LOCAL COMIC SHOP!!!
This could take years and years to happen, I know- but it's the direction I see it trending in.
My favorite part about these cartoons is that they're so funny they make me want to argue with other people in the comment section for hours. You just wrote a novel on the msg board of a web comic. Congratulations.
DeleteThey asked a question, I answered it. No need for sarcasm...
DeleteOn the first point, phrasing the likes of "Vote Obama" is likely to be found in advertisements and on signs on the lawn, but if somebody were to actually talk like that in everyday conversation it would at best be incredibly rude and pushy, and even that is usually not preceded by a statement like "Some people think McCain could be a good president but that's because they're stupid" outside of flatout smear campaigns which are generally tasteless in the first place. Even there they're more likely to badmouth McCain than they are the McCain voters.
DeleteNot to mention that politics is a pretty turbulent area of discussion in the first place. Yes, people use strong wording when they feel that their rights are being infringed upon or they're speaking out of prejudicial hatred. I don't feel that Prop 8 is a socially comparable subject to the discussion digital media vs print.
The right to disagree with somebody is a given. At no point have I accused you of attempting to infringe on freedom of speech. Clearly I have been disagreeing with you without fear of censorship. That's just a weird direction to take things in.
On the second point those are some interesting figures and I thank you for taking the time to inform me.
Because we must all conform to the way you do things.
ReplyDeleteBipolar much?
ReplyDeleteYou're one to talk Anonymous, your opinions are all over the place!
DeleteSlow Clap
Delete...I may not have said this out loud, but I've felt frustration close to this level back when retailers were pretending the internet didn't exist.
ReplyDeleteThose free hug people at conventions exist for people like us...I mean him.
fuck you anonymous 7:14 am
ReplyDeleteTHERE IS "NO" EMOTICON FOR WHAT THAT GUY IS FEELING!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAdUcp8u3zQ
I'd like to know what he'd do if he only found #51, 52, and 53, or even worse, just #51 and 53.
ReplyDeleteI'd be "I guarantee nobody will have number 55"
ReplyDeleteThis guy puts the "hyper" in hyperbole.
ReplyDeleteLuckily 56 was when the series jumped the shark else his empty threats could have gone on forever.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how he would react if he only found issues 51, 52, and 53, or even worse, only 52 and 54.
ReplyDeleteThey probably started renumbering the comics after issue 54.
ReplyDeleteOh, don'tcha just wanna flick him on the nose, just to watch him crumple to the ground in a torrent of tears and perhaps even urine?
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteValue of the stakes after making the usual deductions 3775/. ... A rush was made at General Wyndham and his friends : in a moment they were dashed ... and a man, looking through the window, saw the daughter on her knees on the floor, ...